Jack Layton / Canada’s Ralph Nader = Spoiler of Liberal, Ignatieff Victory


If Harper knows your vote can be bought for political crumbs, he will never give you your entitled slice.

No one thought ill of Ralph Nader, but the man did not have a snowball in hells chance of becoming the President of the United States of America, but Ralph did manage to steal enough votes to thwart  the chances of real front-runners every time he ran.  I have always thought that although it was his right to run for president, that it was also his right and perhaps his duty  not to run.  I think the same for Jack Layton, who claims to love his country and wants to do what is best for Canada and Canadians, but does he love Canada and Canadians enough and want what is best for Canada and Canadians  enough,  not to run for Prime Minister? He knows that he will be allowing Harper a victory by running and he has already admitted that Harper is the worst thing for Canada and Canadians, but yet he does what he does.  I think it is time for Jack to rethink exactly what his running is doing to Canada and the Canadian people and either merge his party with the Liberal Party, or disband it all together.

Other the what Jean Chretien did to the Liberal Party’s credibility with Shawinigate  and the Sponsorship Scandal, Jack Layton and his New Democratic Party have been like a cancer eating away at the Liberal’s and their every attempt to get the needed votes to win a federal election.  Not that I do not like Jack, but running just to play king-maker and not trying to win the whole thing is not very considerate of Canadians. The NDP are the reason behind the minority governments and seem content in their role although on the whole for Canada it only leads to instability.  If he wants a coalition so badly I do not see why the 2 parties do not kiss and make up and form one new stronger party like the Conservatives and the Alliance did some time back when they realised that apart neither would ever stand a chance of winning a federal election.

The workings of parliament have gotten way too childish for my liking and I would guess the rest of Canadians too. Jack Layton needs to stop what he is doing in my opinion and think about what is really good for Canadians. I do not think that him playing king-maker is what is best for Canada. This smiling for the camera and taking credit for working with the Conservatives when they are not working in the best interest of Canada lets the Conservatives feel that when they really have no support they can buy a winning vote from Jack Layton cheap and that is exactly what Mr. Harper does and counts on to ram his agenda through parliament. 

 The only thing that Harper has said that makes sense is that Canada is in need of a majority government although  that can not be put down at every turn by the opposition parties getting together.  Mr. Harper is not the only choice for a majority government as he is shouting in this campaign. Mr. Harper and his Conservatives have openly stated that they will see to the poor people of Canada’s needs when they get the economic plan on-line; that they will address the situation of long line ups and people dying in emergency rooms when they get their economic recovery plan on-line and so it goes for low-income housing, infrastructure, but he will scrap the gun registry and hold the course he and his government have used to govern in the past.  The course that has put us deep in debt, the course that brought us to this premature election due to a vote of non confidence and his government being brought down for contempt of parliament.

I think Jack Layton is the reason that some people get a little, but not enough, because he is always ready to take something instead of fighting for everything that the situation calls for and that Canadian’s need. It makes him look good like he is working hard for all Canadians and willing to compromise, but in reality Canadians are still going to bed hungry and without heat and some are still living on the street and these issues can not be the focus of compromise, but rather they must be the focus of immediate action. 

 I did write to all of these leaders about the people in the streets in Quebec and the harsh winter they were about to face with no shelters and all of the cuts to programs that help them and got a generic,” It is not my problem from all of them. I told them that people would be dying from not being able to heat because the cost of heating is just too high and Hydro Quebec was cutting power and they all said it was not their problem and to contact the provinces. The Mp from Lasalle, Quebec, Lise Zarac, did not even bother to respond at all and now she would like my vote, fat chance of that happening.

Mr. Layton to me is a prime example of why either the constitution needs to be changed or at least the way elections are held and how many parties can ultimately sit on the hill.  I mean here we have a party that exist solely to be a deal maker; a party that never makes laws from scratch, but for a price will let all your bad stuff pass.  This sort of undermines why and how our democracy works, because the losers of an election will always be able to join with another, or all of the other parties and force the winner from office.

At the end of the day I want one party governing this country and my family and Mr. Layton and his version of the Liberal Party are insuring that it is really only one party that can win and only by a minority throwing us  into a minority government over and over again. I think it is time to not vote for Jack Layton, or the Bloc and vote either Conservative, or Liberal and let Canada and Canadians be governed the way it should be.  If we have made a bad choice in either party it is not forever although it may seem like it, but this constant excuse of not having the chance to govern without the threat of being pulled down is getting on my last nerve.

Let us face it they all lie, cheat and could careless about us. I think the old style politician who used to take care of his people is gone and now it is simply a job like any other and the politicians will do anything not to lose it.  I think although Jack may appear to be a great guy he is less than playing fair with Canadian voters. Jack has allowed the Conservatives to pass laws that would never have made it for a few crumbs from Harper’s plate. Harper plays him, like a fiddle.  Harper wants something passed just call Jack and promise to do a little something about one of Jacks demands and an unworthy bill passes in its entirety.  Harper is using Jack Layton now to talk down Ignatieff on the campaign trail.

The Liberals have done themselves no favor by hiding and waiting for the right time to fight back. They themselves have allowed the fact that they might not have won an election to stop them from bringing down this government earlier and saving Canadians a lot of stress and suffering.  I do not know why Ignatieff has not spoken out sooner, I listened to him speak and was quite impressed. In my opinion he should have been speaking out more often. Ignatieff has a human quality to him that Harper will never have. Ignatieff when he speaks comes off as talking to the listeners and not at them. Although he said he did not have much of a plan, other than to be more transparent and that the Liberals have learnt from their past mistakes it did sound genuine and there was no B.S. about having it all worked out.  I think if it were not for Jack Layton and his NDP Ignatieff might have pulled this election off and been the next  government of Canada. I think he is more likable, more willing to work with the other parties in the house and best of all not looking to get his name in history for being a war-time Prime Minister.

I know that we allow all of the people of Canada to be represented and that before all of this splintering of parties it all used to work out just fine, but this is a new day, with new politicians and this system no longer works. I am tired of getting crumbs, from Mr. Harper’s plate, because Jack Layton wanted to grab a headline and look like he is making government work. the man is actually running around Canada saying he is happy just to make little deals here and there. He never apologies for all of the really bad laws that pass because they are the cake and you can’t have crumbs if there is no cake.

I think that merger of the NDP and the Liberal Party of Canada is long over due and needs to happen sooner than later. Neither party will see any success when it comes to leading the country without it. The Conservatives and the Alliance realised that and merged. There is an old saying the goes,”A house divided against itself can never stand”.   Well I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens, but no matter who wins the Liberals need not talk of coalition, but of merger with the NDP.  The differences between the 2 parties is not that great and according to Jack Layton himself, he feels that the major difference is not in their believes but in the delivery of them to the people. So I say, “Talk it over like people who want what is best for Canada and get back to being one political party with both a good heart and a practical mind and the will to do what is right”.

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About archemdis

I try to say what is on my mind and not hurt others, but some things need to be said whether they hurt or not and I do just that. I try to listen as well as talk, but my opinion is just that mine. You need not take it as your own, just respect the fact that I am entitled to it, as you are yours. I do read all comments, but will only answer, or allow to be displayed those which adress me by name, refer to the post by name in the comment, or that have been sent through the proper channels. In this manner I can tell whether the comment was meant for me and that it is not just spam.
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8 Responses to Jack Layton / Canada’s Ralph Nader = Spoiler of Liberal, Ignatieff Victory

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  2. adam says:

    Hi Archemides,

    You have touched on some very important themes and I think we have much in common. Where the differences lie are a result of priorities. You are right, that a Liberal/ NDP merger would likely be the quickest means to defeating a Conservative government. You are also right that many people view Layton or Nader as “election splitters” or “spoilers.”

    I don’t dispute that. Where I differ, however, is mainly about prioritization. Defeating the Conservative government is not a particularly big deal for me, nor do I think it is of most NDP supporters. (Mind you, I am rather progressive and have voted at various points for Liberals, the NDP, and the Green Party). Their biggest concern is getting as many NDP MP’s into office. Or, making the Liberals more responsive to its progressive wing of the party by demonstrating that they can’t unconditionally expect our support. This is a useful bargaining position. In the United States, for instance, progressives don’t have too many options because they have nowhere to go. Basically, almost all Senators and Congressman are either Democrats or Republicans (with few exceptions). The result is a two-party system that is remarkably close on a number of issues. The choice isn’t as sharp as many care to appreciate.

    Neither party, for instance, advocates universal health care. Nor do they seriously challenge corporate abuse. Both pursue an aggressive foreign policy, argue for an increase in military spending (despite already accounting for over half the federal budget). While there are differences, those often deal mostly with rhetoric and not actual policy. It is not surprising then, that Congress has consistently had an approval rating hovering around 10 percent. People are fed up, yet they continue to elect the same party’s over and over again. Einstein once quipped that insanity was doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. Are we therefore politically insane? The reason, then, to support individuals like Layton or Nader is an attempt to bring in fresh blood. Giving up on their chances of winning before they even try is to counter the very foundations of what makes our two countries great.

    Imagine how different the United States would be had the Founding Fathers decided that the American Revolution was unlikely to succeed?

    Furthermore, defeating the Conservative Party seems to be the main priority of the Liberal Party and its supporters. They are, of course, the largest opposition party. So, while Liberals may express frustration with the NDP cutting off their support, NDP supporters still happily vote knowing very well that the Conservatives may get elected. To them, the priority is getting NDP members in office, irrespective of whether the Conservatives will gain either a minority or majority government.

    I am sorry you are frustrated with my use of statistics. The purpose was to illustrate a point. Nevertheless, truth be told, I am not sick of minority governments. I like having a plurality of different parties representing Canada. This is a big country, with different interests that should have a say in the development of this country. There are parts of each party’s platform that I agree with. Overall, it is an aspect of our system I appreciate.

    Did you know that the universal health care we celebrate here in Canada resulted from the NDP? While they never have formed a government, their MP’s successfully created universal medicare in Saskatchewan, one of our Canadian Provinces. From there it spread across the country. Had their been no NDP then, we would be stuck with a similar health care system that exists in the United States today. Clearly, there are benefits of smaller parties even if they don’t get elected.

    Lastly, it is important to note that there are over 30 million people in Canada. Of those who vote, each has different reasons and motives. You would be surprised how many progressive individuals think this election is a waste of time (a theme also echoed and propagated by Conservatives), given that it will likely result with no significant changes. Furthermore, we have to remember that all of these individuals (Ignatieff, Harper, Layton, May, Duceppe) are all politicians. To varying degrees, they all advance particular arguments that benefit their agenda. This helps explain Harper’s emphasis on this “unnecessary” election, an approach that he feels is successful for furthering his campaign. Given the Conservative Party’s support, it seems to be working.

    Food for thought.

    – Adam

    • archemdis says:

      Good morning Adam well said and although you make some very interesting points, I think that your assessment of what the people of Canada want is clouded with what you don’t mind seeing. I for one would love to see a permanent merger of the Liberals and the NDP. I have written many times that I like and respect Jack Layton and what he stands for, but I feel that voting for him does nothing but take away a Liberal vote. I am sorry but after all I see the Conservatives doing and then throw in the scandals getting rid of them in my opinion is a priority and very necessary. They have demonstrated to me to be very dangerous and totally devoid of compassion. They have divided this country on so many issues and have pitted neighbor against neighbor. I have never felt this way about a political party and their leader and I do not like the feeling, but when a man says that my family is less because they come from a certain place, or have less money, or practices a certain religious faith, it sends me back to a time I would rather not revisit, thank you very much. I know too many decent poor people who have had to quit school because they could no longer afford to go to now be considered 2nd class citizens. I could go on and on, but I will not and instead leave you with this thought of mind. We do not live on this planet alone, but we are equally responsible for everything on it. We are important as individuals and most change for the good started with the brave, visionary actions of one person willing to risk it all for the benefit of his or her people. At one point statistically the world thought certain people to be born inferior where would they be if they had listened to the statistics of the day. I only get frustrated with statistics because people get lost in them and allow them to become the reason for doing, or accepting things that their hearts, minds and souls tell them is wrong. Got to go to work now but have enjoyed talking to you. Have a great day and thank you for taking the time to chat!

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      • adam says:

        It is pretty difficult to compare the American electoral (two-party system) with the Canadian parliamentarian system (which is quite similar to Britain).

        More importantly, the assertion that Nader “spoiled” Al Gore’s election is misguided. The majority of Nader supporters would never have voted for Gore anyway. Instead of stressing the less than 100,000 individuals that voted in Florida for Nader, we should be asking why 10,000,000 registered Democrats voted for Bush in the 2000 election. Gore didn’t even carry his home state of Tennessee, which would also have had him win the election. This is pretty shocking for a two-term incumbent Vice-president.

        Secondly, every Third Party candidate received more votes than the margin that Gore lost Florida by, so why single Nader out? You should really check out a great documentary on Ralph Nader, called: An Unreasonable Man.

        Thirdly, Gore technically won the election. It was stolen by him from the Supreme Court’s decision. Why was he so ineffective in pursuing legal recourse, considering voter irregularities in Florida and the fact that he won the popular vote?

        On another note, even if Jack Layton doesn’t have a shot of becoming Prime Minister, the NDP still wins a number of ridings across Canada, having them being well-represented in parliament. So, it is not exactly like these votes go down the toilet, these MPs are there to stand up for their platform. Unlike the U.S., we vote for our local MP’s, not for a President (or in our case, Prime Minister).

        You are right that the NDP will cut support from the Liberal Party in certain ridings, and it is also true that the Conservative Party keeps getting elected with less than the majority of votes. Nevertheless, nothing is stopping the Liberals and NDP from forming a coalition, something I suspect a number of Canadians would support. Doing so would allow the parties to remain separate, something that would also be welcomed by individuals who do not agree with one of their platforms.

        I personally find the Liberal Party to be closer to the Conservatives than the NDP, so the idea of removing them from the picture concerns me. A complete party merger is therefore impractical, as many of the NDP’s supporters may start another party or move somewhere else. In fact, many of the former Progressive Conservatives have moved into the Green Party, believe it or not!

        If I vote, it will be for Olivia Chow (NDP), and while they won’t get the majority of seats in parliament, I’m happier to have her represent my communities interests than the Liberal Party.

        I understand your concerns, consider this an alternative perspective. That is what is great about democracy – more choice! A multi-party system allows that, and contrasts the United States for that reason.

        In sum, Jack Layton isn’t equatable with Ralph Nader. Even if he was, that wouldn’t bother me so much, because Ralph Nader sort of kicks ass.

      • archemdis says:

        Hello Adam,
        All that you say is true, but why on earth then do Canadians keep complainig about having to go through yet another election then. Why has the fact that Canadians did not want this election been the thrust of the Harper campaign? If this is our way than maybe we should all just shut up and let the system run it’s course. I am fully aware of the rules of each system, but it would seem that Harper does not, nor do his folowers. Prorogating parliament is part of the system, as well as non confidence voting. I said what I would like to see and what would make sense to me. I gave a comparrison to me between Jack Layton and Ralph Nader when it came to splitting the vote and you gave me numbers. I was not looking for an arguement and I was not quoting numbers and statistics; I know the outcome. Tell me what you think, not what the numbers tell you. What is the quickest way that you know of that the Liberals would gain a majority government. Put away your book of statistics for just a minute and tell me your not tired of this minority and majority government crap. You do not need numbers and statistics to tell you what is wrong with the system and what needs to be done to fix it. Consider this, if what you are saying is to be believed, than Canadians should stop their whining and complaining and be grateful if they are thrust back into an election as soon as this one is over, because after all according to you, they will be experiencing, more choice. More choice that only a multi-party system allows. I hear you loud and clear, but I do not think that many Canadians are feeling all that grateful right now, do you? Thank you for commenting and I think that there is always a place for statistics and facts, but they do not always reflect how ordinary people are thinking all of the time. I think is is equally important to get a feeling about why the people thought that that election was lost for example and who they blamed and why. I like Jack Layton and Ralph Nader both, but I still thing that they are vote splitters and election spoilers. Can you not really see that? Good night to you and I do see your point.

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